HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-10-15 Special Meeting
NEW HANOVER COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS BOOK 34
SPECIAL MEETING, OCTOBER 15, 2019 PAGE 372
Jeff James, Wilmington Health CEO, stated that this community is very fortunate. In his 25 years of
healthcare executive experience he has never seen a medical community of this size with so much capabilities, so
much potential, to positively impact the entire delivery system for the better. Without question the physician core
of this community is the best he has ever seen anywhere and the hospital is second to none. Wilmington Health
congratulates the hospital on its achievements, its commitment to the community, and recognizes their goal is to do
the best for the community. The community is fortunate to have an asset like NHRMC and Wilmington Health has
every confidence in its leadership. He thinks it is important to say that neither Wilmington Health nor he has formed
an opinion and do not currently support any position or have any recommendations on the proper course of action
for the County Commissioners as it relates to a possible transaction involving the community’s asset. It is clearly in
the community’s and Wilmington Health’s best interest to have a strong hospital. They do however have questions
and concerns. The first is about this process. There is no representation of independent group practices in this
process. It is fair to say that NHRMC physician group is well represented by the hospital leadership and the members
of the BOT, and the hospital medical staff is well represented by the five physicians appointed to the PAG by the
medical executive committee. However, it is not clear that independent practices have been asked to participate in
this process in any meaningful way. Speaking for Wilmington Health, he further stated, as the second largest provider
of physician services in the county and one of the largest independent and most successful multispecialty group
practices in the state, it has not been engaged in this process. This is despite several attempts on its part to engage
constructively in the process. While Wilmington Health has tremendous respect for the physicians named to the PAG
by the medical executive committee and applaud their willingness to serve in what will certainly be a challenging
position, in no way do they represent nor do they have any authorization to speak on behalf of Wilmington Health.
There is a question in Wilmington Health’s mind as to whether there is truly representation for any particular
constituency or the community as a whole. This is because it is Wilmington Health’s understanding that as part of
this process the members of the PAG will be required to sign confidentiality agreements. The very nature of
confidentiality agreements limits dialogue between representatives and his/her constituency. There can be no true
representation. One question they have is will the nature of these confidentiality agreements be made public? Will
the public get a chance to understand their representatives can and cannot talk about?
Kathy Muzzey, resident of Princess Street, stated she passes her time as her concerns have already been
eloquently expressed by others.
David Ward, resident of Willow Woods Drive, stated that he has been in Wilmington all his life, his father
helped build the hospital, and his wife worked at the hospital. He and his family have seen this county grow up from
a small population and has seen a lot of buildings come up in this County. One thing to be very proud of is this
hospital because it came up with the people paying for it. The people voted to build the hospital. Since then, it has
grown very large, it has prospered, and is still prospering. His family owns many properties in this County and when
they sell a property, there has got to be a motivation to sell. It’s either to make a profit or its going to do him some
good. He is asking to know what the motivation is for this process. That is what needs to be asked. Once the hospital
is sold, the money is gone. Again, once the hospital is sold the money is going to go quickly. He would challenge the
Board to build the hospital back for $1 billion. All the hospital campuses and building it will never be done and you
cannot build it back. Right now we are prospering, this County is doing well, and the hospital is doing well. He has
read the news articles that says the County says if it sells the hospital it can put the money in the bank. He says that
there is already money in the bank and we, the people, own the hospital and paid for it. It has now gone to a regional
hospital and everyone is allowed to enjoy it. If something is done, everyone in the area (including other counties)
need to be included and it needs to go to a vote. The people need a say so in this because they know it benefits
them. The County currently has control and once it loses control, what will happen to the people that do not have
insurance and want to come in for treatment? What will happen with the prices increasing if it is sold and right now
the County has money in the bank so what will help by selling it?
Chairman Barfield stated this public hearing is being recorded and streamed live on the County’s Facebook
page for anyone who is unable to attend. Each person will be able to speak for three minutes. There is a timekeeper
next to the podium who will let speakers know when there is one minute left and when time is up. Please be
courteous and end comments at three minutes. Speakers are asked to speak on their priorities for healthcare in this
community. What is important to you and your family? And what do you feel should be required as part of the
Request for Proposals that will be developed? Members of our hospital Board of Trustees as well as the Partnership
Advisory Group are here tonight. The advisory group will be working over the coming months to develop the request
for proposals, and the information heard tonight will help inform that work. Once the Request for Proposal (RFP)
has been developed, it will be shared with the public, the Trustees, and the Commissioners. This is anticipated to
occur no earlier than December, after the advisory group puts a lot of work into its development, as well as gains an
understanding of the full scope of NHRMC’s current position and the industry as a whole. We anticipate allowing 60
days for organizations to respond, so it will likely be in February or March before proposals are received. At that
time, they will be shared publicly and another public hearing will be convened to receive comments on the proposals.
It’s important to note that while the RFP is out, the Partnership Advisory Group will also be examining the options
for maintaining county ownership and will then be able to take that research and evaluate the proposals that are
received.
Chasity Cace, resident of Addenbury Court, stated that she is the Wilmington Health Chief Financial Officer,
and of most concern to Wilmington Health is the certainty that a sale will increase the cost of care and could
potentially reduce the quality of care in the community. It is not reasonable to assume that an organization is going
to invest close to $1 billion and not expect a return on their investment. The claims that the investment will be
recouped through efficiencies and growth of patient volumes across the region is disingenuous at best. A simple
NEW HANOVER COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS BOOK 34
SPECIAL MEETING, OCTOBER 15, 2019 PAGE 373
Google search using the term “impact of hospital consolidation on medical costs” reveals the following top six
results: the impact of hospital medical costs NCCI increases 6 to 18 percent; bigger but not better hospital mergers
increase costs and do not improve quality; hospital mergers often raise prices analysis finds; provider consolidation
drives up healthcare cost; medpact to explore hospital consolidation impacts Medicare costs. When hospitals merge
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to save money, patients often pay more. On September 16, the representative from one of the potential RFP
recipients reached out to Wilmington Health to get a feel on its perspective. When asked about the cost of care
going up, his response was very simple stating “you are right to be concerned about the cost of care. Anyone
including us who purchase it will be looking for a return.” They told him they appreciated his honesty. At a minimum
it is highly likely we will see dollars leaving the community, jobs leave or never materialize in the community, and
New Hanover County employers and our patients will be footing the bill. Make no mistake this is a form of tax. It just
comes without representation. As one of the area’s largest employers, Wilmington Health has seen firsthand what
happens to the cost of care when a larger health system is brought into our community. Many of the physicians in
the NHRMC physician group are actually employed by Charlotte-based Atrium Health already. Atrium was formerly
Carolinas Healthcare System and one of the likely suitors to buy the hospital. The prior hospital administration cut
this deal and the cost to Wilmington Health’s self-funded plan went up overnight as it did for every other employer
self-funded plan in the community, including the one the County is responsible for. As more and more physicians
are employed by Atrium under the guise of NHRMC, Wilmington Health’s health plan costs continue to increase. As
a self-funded payer, Wilmington Health has access to the detailed claim information. Double digit percentage
increases could be seen in its claims literally overnight. Nothing changed about the provider or the service except
one day they were a community provider and the next they were employed by a larger system from Charlotte. To
add insult to injury, millions and millions of dollars leave the community in the form of management fees to the large
system year after year.
Chris Bunch, resident of Woodland Trace, stated that he is the Chief Operating Officer for Wilmington
Health. Finally, a consultant firm has been hired to create a strategy around selling the hospital. A PR firm was
engaged weeks ahead of any formal announcement to help craft the message to the public. He is guessing the phrase
“we are just asking the question” was coined by the PR firm. Wilmington Health is confident the County
Commissioners will be provided an excellent alternative for sale or other transaction. One of Wilmington Health’s
major remaining questions is when will an equal amount of effort be seen with perhaps a different consulting firm,
a different advisory group, or anyone engaged to provide the County Commissioners an opportunity for a path
forward if there is no transaction. When will it be seen that a group is tasked with the very premise of the question
and will it part of the charge to the PAG? Additionally, one of the stated reasons for a transaction is to allow the
hospital to obtain additional borrowing through bond financing or expansion. What benefit is it to taxpayers and
citizens of New Hanover County for the hospital to expand in other counties? Will the expected organic growth of
this County support the necessary growth of the hospital? Also, is bond financing the only mechanism for acquiring
capital? Wilmington Health is unable to use bond financing, yet it has still been able to expand significantly in the
last ten years. There have been multiple references to the need for a $1 billion investment to the healthcare system
in our community. As mentioned before by several people, the transparency for this whole process is appallingly
light. Very few details have come out illustrating this need and fewer details have come out about the alternatives
for proforma analysis that drive these conclusions. When will we see the billion-dollar investment need and
alternatives outlined in detail as part of this transparent process? One of the issues discussed is the need to address
the social determinants of health and Wilmington Health agrees. The question is, is that the hospital’s responsibility
or the community’s responsibility? The community should be engaged in the best way to handle this need. Someone
suggested a tax increase is warranted to meet the social needs. However, without details and alternative
countermeasures being defined, it is not possible to engage in the discussion. Mr. Gizdic has repeatedly discussed
the change in reimbursement methodologies in healthcare and he is correct. He is talking about the movements of
value versus our current market of volume. Wilmington Health applauds him on this as Wilmington Health has been
working on this for nearly a decade. He has continued to mention the potential for the downside risk as a peril and
threat to the hospital’s ability to remain independent. What strategies has the hospital developed to mitigate this
risk? As a point of clarification, the hospital would not be assuming these risks alone as most of the risk is attributed
to the hospital’s physician group, not the hospital itself. Wilmington Health plans on doing its part and if asked, can
do more. In less than three years, Wilmington Health will be assuming the financial risks for the total cost of care of
patients attributed to it. This includes the financial risk of services provided at the hospital, thus alleviating the
hospital of any downside risks associated with Wilmington Health patients. The hospital will never be asked to take
on the downside risk of patients attributed to Wilmington Health only, only the patients attributed to its physicians.
Michael Faulkner, resident of Nutt Street, stated he did not come prepared to say anything but thinks it is
important to share his story. He explained how he was injured in March 2013 in a car accident that was not his fault
while he was a UNCW student and the struggle of dealing with Allstate insurance to obtain payment. The arbitrators
are working in favor of the insurance companies. Ultimately, America needs to buy up hospitals, not be selling them.
He knows for a fact selling this hospital whether it’s for- or not-for profit, selling it to a private company changes its
motives. He asked that this be taken into consideration.
Derrick Anderson, resident of Stephenson Drive, stated that he is a United States Navy veteran, a graduate
of UNC-Wilmington, and served on the New Hanover County Department of Social Services Board for six years and
was chairman for two of those years. He also was on the hospital committee that studied privatization twenty-two
years ago. Claud O’Shields was the chairman of the committee. He was against the sale then and is against the sale
now. He thinks the whole system has been compromised, there is no transparency and for the record he wants
everyone to know he does not trust the system, he does not trust what has been going on, and he does not trust
NEW HANOVER COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS BOOK 34
SPECIAL MEETING, OCTOBER 15, 2019 PAGE 374
some of the things he has been seeing. He really does not want to say anything except he wants the record to show
that he thinks the system is corrupt and he does not trust it one bit.
BREAK: Chairman Barfield called for a break from 5:09 p.m. to 5:29 p.m.
Chairman Barfield stated this this public hearing is being recorded and streamed live on the County’s
Facebook page for anyone who is unable to attend. Each person will be able to speak for three minutes. There is a
timekeeper next to the podium who will let speakers know when there is one minute left and when time is up. Please
be courteous and end comments at three minutes. Speakers are asked to speak on their priorities for healthcare in
this community. What is important to you and your family? And what do you feel should be required as part of the
Request for Proposals that will be developed? Members of our hospital Board of Trustees as well as the Partnership
Advisory Group are here tonight. The advisory group will be working over the coming months to develop the request
for proposals, and the information heard tonight will help inform that work. Once the Request for Proposal (RFP)
has been developed, it will be shared with the public, the Trustees, and the Commissioners. This is anticipated to
occur no earlier than December, after the advisory group puts a lot of work into its development, as well as gains an
understanding of the full scope of NHRMC’s current position and the industry as a whole. We anticipate allowing 60
days for organizations to respond, so it will likely be in February or March before proposals are received. At that
time, they will be shared publicly and another public hearing will be convened to receive comments on the proposals.
It’s important to note that while the RFP is out, the Partnership Advisory Group will also be examining the options
for maintaining county ownership and will then be able to take that research and evaluate the proposals that are
received.
Commissioner White stated that in his business in the courthouse, we do a lot in terms of correcting the
record. We have heard a lot of opinions here tonight and we are going to hear more and look forward to those.
However, when there are facts that are misstated, he thinks it is important to point those out. He is not sure if there
are any representatives here from Wilmington Health, if so he invited them to rebut what he is about to say. He will
disclose that Wilmington Health is his primary care physician group, but a couple of things bear pointing out. First,
Wilmington Health is for-profit and he would suggest at least in his own experience there, their standard of care is
not subpar because of that. Now that does not mean the hospital needs to be for-profit, but that is an important
point. Wilmington Health does an outstanding job meeting the standard of care and makes a profit without accepting
Medicaid patients. Secondly, one of Wilmington Health’s physicians is a member of the PAG, Dr. Sandra Hall. She
works there. For Wilmington Health to suggest it is not represented is not factual. He thinks it is important to point
those facts out and correct the record.
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Islah Speller, resident of North 7 Street, stated her question is to the County Commissioners. What she
would like to know is if the County Commissioners are part investor with the privatization or sale of the hospital. Is
it part owner of this plan to sell the hospital? And if so, if this private buyer owns more than one hospital and out
of the seven hospitals this buyer may own, if one of them is not doing financially good at making a profit, where
does that leave us as citizens here in New Hanover County as far as another hospital?
Chairman Barfield stated that he wants to clarify what is being done here tonight. The Board is not engaging
in any back and forth dialogue between the speakers and the Board. It is here to receive comments from the public
during this public hearing.
Ms. Speller stated that she is vehemently against privatization of selling of the hospital.
Laura Dawson, resident of Bellwood Avenue, stated she owns Food Physics and Body Dynamics, LLC and
her company has an approved contract with Federal, State, and local governments. The company does a clinical
nutrition protocol that can be taught. What her feelings are about the evolution of healthcare, not only here in this
County but across the United States and globally, is the significant shift in the type of care that is being provided and
required by the patients and communities. She knows that a lot of that is leaning on knowledge, exchange of
knowledge, and artificial intelligence that is being used in some of the larger educationally institutionalized hospitals.
We want to make sure we are keeping in competition by learning about the new discoveries that are being made by
those hospitals and organizations within our own community so we have greater options for expansion rather than
contracting. She is not necessarily for or against the sale of the hospital. She is for the expansion or evolution of the
services she believes are essential to be provided to us as County residents.
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Kathryn Cardom, resident of South 8 Street, stated she is very concerned because what she has seen over
time is that when things become privatized or taken away from the community you lose control and it becomes a
lean mean thing where the cost goes high, the service has to go down, and the staff has to get reduced. She has
talked with a lot of people during the break and a lot asked why there is not a referendum on the ballot. This should
not be a question for a small group of people, but for everyone because it services all of us. She does not understand
it but she thinks it can be heard from those attending tonight this should be on the ballot as a referendum. People
do not want this decided for them by a few. If it is successful and working why would you break it?
Hannah Gilmore stated she is an MSW student at UNC-Wilmington and is doing her clinical field work at
NHRMC. The healthcare landscape is changing and she knows there will have to be adjustments made. She feels very
fortunate to be able to do clinical field work at NHRMC and if the hospital is to sell, she would really like to see the
organization maintain a commitment to hosting students in a supportive environment. This also means ensuring that
employees create a supportive, engaging, learning, and working environment. She is always looking for ways to learn
NEW HANOVER COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS BOOK 34
SPECIAL MEETING, OCTOBER 15, 2019 PAGE 375
from people who are excited about the work they do and really committed their patients and clients. She would also
like the hospital to consider during this process that a commitment remains to charity care for uninsured patients
so that these patients can apply for and receive assistance from the hospital. She also wants to see a commitment
to maintaining strong supportive partnerships with community organizations that provide care outside of the
hospital to ensure that patients don’t readmit and can be successful in all health issues.
BREAK: Chairman Barfield called for a break from 5:42 p.m. to 6:07 p.m.
Chairman Barfield stated this public hearing is being recorded and streamed live on the County’s Facebook
page for anyone who is unable to attend. Each person will be able to speak for three minutes. There is a timekeeper
next to the podium who will let speakers know when there is one minute left and when time is up. Please be
courteous and end comments at three minutes. Speakers are asked to speak on their priorities for healthcare in this
community. What is important to you and your family? And what do you feel should be required as part of the
Request for Proposals that will be developed? Members of our hospital Board of Trustees as well as the Partnership
Advisory Group are here tonight. The advisory group will be working over the coming months to develop the request
for proposals, and the information heard tonight will help inform that work. Once the Request for Proposal (RFP)
has been developed, it will be shared with the public, the Trustees, and the Commissioners. This is anticipated to
occur no earlier than December, after the advisory group puts a lot of work into its development, as well as gains an
understanding of the full scope of NHRMC’s current position and the industry as a whole. We anticipate allowing 60
days for organizations to respond, so it will likely be in February or March before proposals are received. At that
time, they will be shared publicly and another public hearing will be convened to receive comments on the proposals.
It’s important to note that while the RFP is out, the Partnership Advisory Group will also be examining the options
for maintaining county ownership and will then be able to take that research and evaluate the proposals that are
received.
John Godwin, resident of Bougainville Way, stated he was born and raised here, received his PhD in history
in 1994, and wrote a book about the history of Wilmington. He knows from various people he spoke with in writing
the book how very concerned people were when the Atlantic Coastline Railroad was withdrawing back in the 1960s.
At that time, it was thought the city was going to dry up. At that time, the decision was made to construct a new
hospital, a first class one. An issue that had to be solved at that time was how to bring blacks and whites together,
as African-Americans had an old community/public hospital built by the New Deal that they did not want to give up.
It had to be worked out and was, and New Hanover Memorial Hospital was built through a bond issue. A public
hospital, a public institution paid and financed through tax dollars. He asked what we are up against, and stated that
we are up against conservatism, southern style. It’s old and been around for a long time and has had its way in
Wilmington for a long time. The railroads here were financed through public bond issues, paid for by the people of
this area, and then they were sold out to big corporations. Cotton mills, same story. All across the south where the
mind of the south reigned and racial fear has been so rampant, lending itself to conservative domination. So often
it was the southern kids, white and black, who got the worst healthcare, worst schools, worst treatment, and who
would really stand up for their interests. So often it just wasn’t there and they suffered. Diseases that were endemic
were often related to nutrition.
Al Sharp, resident of Chestnut Street, stated he is a retired county manager and a retired executive director
of Charlotte-Mecklenburg Council of Government. He sat on a hospital board for eight years and knows how painful
the process is when a community feels that it is losing one of its assets. About four years ago a program was run
here to look at issues about how the region could move forward with three key items coming out of the research.
One, both people who live here and people who come here are very proud of their community. They are proud of
UNC-Wilmington because of the richness it brings to the community. They are proud of the medical facilities that
are here, so many of the retirees who have relocated here because their children want to know that there is a reliable
managed system to provide healthcare. The third issue was the quality of life. One of the key components of the
quality of life was trust. The citizens here and the other two counties that were researched believe fundamentally
that their local governments were responsible, intelligent, and made good decisions, both cities and counties. He is
asking at this time why are we looking at the possible dissolution of one of our main props of the community and
how are we going to effectively know that it is in the best interest of the community in terms of quality of care, major
employment, and a sustainable economic pattern. He hopes a decision is not rushed into that would be regretted
and there is a deep abiding conviction in this community that the health system is our system, we need to be served
by it, and we need to protect it. He is trusting that the Board and PAG will look at every option before making a
decision.
Allie Reid, resident of Chambers Street in Leland, NC stated that as an NHRMC employee, she is thankful to
everyone and has felt everyone involved has been transparent. She is also a student and has been studying
healthcare and all of the reasons make sense to her. She hopes everyone can go into this with an open mind and
really explore why this is being done. It makes sense. If NHRMC had more resources it could really provide
exceptional care that is even better than what is already being done. She really truly believes it and has full faith in
the leadership and is not worried.
Break: There being no one else to speak at this time, Chairman Barfield called for a break from 6:18 p.m. to 6:41
p.m.
Chairman Barfield stated that at this time no one else has signed up to speak and invited anyone in the
audience who had not already spoken to provide remarks if they so choose. No one provided remarks.
NEW HANOVER COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS BOOK 34
SPECIAL MEETING, OCTOBER 15, 2019 PAGE 376
Break: There being no one else to speak at this time, Chairman Barfield called for a break from 6:42 p.m. to 6:57
p.m.
Chairman Barfield stated that at this time no one else has signed up to speak and invited anyone in the
audience who had not already spoken to provide remarks if they so choose. No one provided remarks.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business, Chairman Barfield closed the public hearing and adjourned the meeting at
7:00 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Kymberleigh G. Crowell
Clerk to the Board
Please note that the above minutes are not a verbatim record of the New Hanover County Board of Commissioners
meeting. The entire proceedings are available for review and checkout at all New Hanover County Libraries and online
at www.nhcgov.com.