2001-01-22 Special Meeting
NEW HANOVER COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERSBOOK 28
JOINT MEETING WITH WILMINGTON CITY COUNCIL PAGE 406
JANUARY 22, 2001
ASSEMBLY
The New Hanover County Board of Commissioners held a Special Meeting with the
Wilmington City Council on Monday, January 22, 2001, at the City Hall, Council Chambers, 102
North Third Street, Wilmington, North Carolina.
Members present were: Chairman Ted Davis, Jr; presiding; Vice-Chairman Robert G. Greer;
Commissioner Julia Boseman; Commissioner William A. Caster; and Commissioner Nancy H.
Pritchett; County Manager, Allen O’Neal; County Attorney, Wanda M. Copley; and Clerk to the
Board, Lucie F. Harrell.
Councilmembers present were: Mayor David L. Jones, presiding; Mayor Pro-Tem Katherine
Bell-Moore; Councilmember Frank S. Conlon; Councilmember Charles H. Rivenbark, Jr.;
Councilmember J. C. Hearne, II; and Councilmember Laura Padgett; City Manager Mary M. Gornto;
City Attorney Thomas C. Pollard; and City Clerk Penelope Spicer-Sidbury.
Councilmember Sandra Spaulding Hughes was absent.
Mayor Jones and Chairman Davis called their respective boards to order.
Mayor Jones welcomed the Board of County Commissioners and expressed appreciation to
them for the cooperative manner in which they have been willing to meet and work with the City
Council in discussing joint efforts.
Chairman Davis expressed appreciation to the City Council for meeting to discuss the
possibility of sharing joint office space, City participation in the County’s parking deck, and
consolidation. He stressed the importance of the City and County keeping an open line of
communication and continuing this cooperative effort.
UPDATE ON GOVERNMENT STRUCTURE STUDY
City Manager Gornto advised that her office and the County Manager’s office were contacted
late Friday afternoon, January 19, 2001, by the Institute of Government (IOG) informing them that
Mr. Kurt Jenne would not be able to conduct the government structure study due to personal health
reasons. When asking if another IOG faculty member could perform the study, the response was that
due to staff vacancies and existing obligations, it would not be possible to assign another faculty
member to undertake the study.
City Manager Gornto stated that she discussed this matter with County Manager O’Neal late
Friday afternoon and they came up with potential leads for other persons or groups to conduct the
study. Some of the leads include other Institutes of Government throughout the United States,
individuals in other academic institutions who are knowledgeable about consolidation issues and/or
mergers, and retired City and County Managers who might be interested in performing the study.
As indicated in the memorandum faxed to the members of both boards, she and County Manager
O’Neal are prepared to develop alternate resources as quickly as possible with a recommendation
being presented to both boards.
In closing, City Manager Gornto advised that the representative from the IOG apologized for
Mr. Jenne not being able to conduct the study and stated that his health problems were unforeseeable
and unavoidable.
County Manager O’Neal commented on the exasperation felt when he received the call about
the inability of Mr. Jenne to conduct the study. He advised that a list of possible persons or
institutions interested in performing the study has been made and once both boards provide direction,
contacts will be made and a recommendation will be prepared as soon as possible.
Mayor Pro-Tem Moore strongly objected to the manner in which this situation had been
handled by the IOG and recommended sending a letter from both governing bodies expressing
disappointment. She expressed concern for waiting six to eight months to hear from the IOG and
then receiving a call on Friday, before the meeting on Monday to inform the managers that Mr. Jenne
NEW HANOVER COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERSBOOK 28
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JANUARY 22, 2001
could not conduct the study nor could the IOG assign another faculty member to undertake the study.
She stated that it was imperative for both governing bodies to immediately send letters to the IOG
informing them of the poor manner in which this situation was handled.
Motion:
Mayor Pro-Tem Moore moved to send the IOG a letter expressing Council’s concern for
letting the City down in handling this matter.
Councilmember Rivenbark suggested allowing time for Council to think about writing a letter
and suggested considering this item at the Council meeting scheduled for tomorrow, January 23,
2001.
Motion Withdrawn:
Mayor Pro-Tem Moore agreed and withdrew the motion.
Mayor Jones noted that this item would be carried over until the meeting scheduled for
Tuesday night.
Chairman Davis advised that discussion was held on this subject at the regular meeting of the
Board of County Commissioners held this morning and a suggestion was made for the Board to write
a letter to the IOG; however, no formal vote was taken. He requested a motion to direct Staff to
draft a letter to IOG expressing concern for waiting months to hear from them and then being told
the study could not be conducted by Mr. Jenne or the IOG.
Motion:
Commissioner Caster MOVED, SECONDED by Commissioner Pritchett, to request Staff
to draft a letter for the Chairman’s signature reflecting the Board’s displeasure with the IOG for
taking so long to respond.
Commissioner Caster questioned whether two separate letters should be written or one joint
letter signed by the Mayor and Chairman of the Board.
Mayor Jones responded that both boards could write separate letters, but the position and
content of the letters should be the same. He also requested both boards to express their concern for
the health problems being experienced by Mr. Jenne.
Councilmember Conlon asked what would be accomplished by writing separate letters
documenting the criticisms of both boards. He suggested allowing the two managers to accurately
convey the thoughts of both boards and show concern for the member of staff who is ill. He stated
that he was reluctant to send a letter as a matter of record showing the irritation of the governing
bodies.
Chairman Davis called for a vote on the motion made by Commissioner Caster. Upon vote,
the MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Chairman Davis directed staff to draft a letter with a copy forwarded to each Commissioner
for review. He stated that once each Commissioner has approved the letter, he would sign the
original copy on behalf of the Board.
Mayor Jones requested City Manager Gornto to formulate a letter for Council to consider at
the meeting on Tuesday, January 23, 2001. He spoke on understanding the concern about writing
a formal letter, but stated if a letter is written, it will serve as legal documentation about the situation
that has occurred and will be on file in City and County offices. This letter will reinforce IOG’s
position by showing that the Institute is relying on one person for the function of an entire
department, which would be a constructive criticism.
Mayor Pro-Tem Moore spoke on the responsibility of both governing boards to respond and
stated that the IOG was contacted to conduct a study because this was the desire of the constituents.
It would not be prudent for the Board not to be responsive to the voters. The boards have the right
to place the onus on the IOG.
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Motion:
After commenting on the need to provide direction to both managers, Mayor Jones
MOVED, SECONDED by Mayor Pro-Tem Moore, to instruct the City Manager to work with the
County Manager in providing a list of names and organizations that can conduct a study in a manner
similar to the IOG within a reasonable time frame.
Mayor Jones called for a vote on the motion.
Upon vote, the MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Motion:
After commenting on the need to move forward with a study as soon as possible,
Commissioner Caster MOVED, SECONDED by Commissioner Pritchett, to instruct both managers
to work together to provide a list of names and organizations that can conduct a study with a
recommendation being presented within 30 days.
Chairman Davis referenced the fact that when consolidation was first discussed, the
Commissioners in office at that time were ready to vote on consolidation, but the City Council wanted
a consultant hired to conduct a study. The Commissioners have honored this request, but the County
is ready to move forward without a study.
Vice-Chairman Greer stated that he did not feel another study was needed but he was willing
to respect the wish of Council.
Mayor Jones spoke on learning from history and stated that since the last consolidation vote,
the demographics in the area have drastically changed. With Phase I and Phase II annexations, the
thinking process has changed. The City and County have agreed to perform the study to avoid
making a mistake. History shows that the last consolidation plan was vague and many voters did not
understand the issues. It is imperative to educate the public on any plan. This was the purpose of
removing the plan from the political arena to a professional arena. The public should have a right to
vote on a well prepared plan.
Vice-Chairman Greer advised that the study to be conducted by the IOG was to inform both
governing bodies about the pros and cons of consolidation. The IOG was not requested to develop
a plan to be placed before the voters.
Councilmember Conlon advised that the purpose of the study was to examine and show the
merits and pros and cons of the following items: (a) consolidation, (b) merger of redundant functions
or (c) remaining the same. Three areas were to be examined and reported on based upon the findings
of the study.
Commissioner Boseman stated that hopefully the consolidation issue would not prevent the
City and County from working together on joint projects to demonstrate fiscal responsibility.
Councilmember Rivenbark agreed with Commissioner Boseman and stated that every effort
should be made for the City and County to work on joint projects that will benefit all citizens.
Mayor Jones agreed and stated that both governing bodies should not allow the study to
interfere with the merging of some departments.
Councilmember Conlon advised that consolidation is a legislative action that requires a charter
that has to be approved by the N. C. General Assembly; however, the two governing bodies on their
own initiative can merge departments. If a merger should be unsuccessful, the departments can be
separated. Under consolidation, all changes to the charter have to be approved by the N. C.
Assembly which can be a long drawn out process.
Chairman Davis expressed appreciation for the comments, and he called for a vote on the
motion to request the City and County Managers to provide a list of names and institutions with a
recommendation being made in 30 days. Upon vote, the MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
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City Manager Gornto commented on understanding the disappointment of both boards and
stated that the IOG did not submit a response to the City and County until September 2000, which
was six months after the June joint meeting. With the election in the fall, a meeting was not scheduled
until the first of the new year.
County Manager O’Neal agreed with the statement made by City Manager Gornto and stated
he felt the election should be held with any new Commissioners being sworn into office before
scheduling another joint meeting. He stated that various dates were reviewed, but there were
conflicts among the members of the boards.
Vice-Chairman Greer expressed frustration for requesting a time frame when the decision was
made to study consolidation and stated that 10 months have passed with nothing being done.
Mayor Jones requested staff to expedite the next meeting as quickly as possible and commit
to setting these meetings as a priority on their calendars with shifting personal items once a date is
selected.
CONSIDERATION OF JOINT CITY-COUNTY OFFICE SPACE
Deputy City Manager Bill Whisnant and Deputy County Manager Andrew J. Atkinson
reviewed the short-term and long-term benefits of the City and County entering into joint
construction projects or sharing space in buildings. With the assistance of Sharpe Architecture PA,
it was concluded that it would be beneficial for all City and County buildings to be located on a single
site with a large footprint. This arrangement would provide for the greatest level of flexibility in the
future and allow complimentary departments to have an opportunity to be located on the same floor.
It is felt that significant long-term costs and operational benefits could be gained for both the public
and staff by locating all City and County administrative offices in a local governmental center;
however, to avoid a delay on the current space needs of the City and County, it would be quicker to
build separate buildings across the street from each other, which would accommodate consolidation
should it occur in the future.
Mayor Jones asked if the County decides to construct a six story building instead of a three
story building and the City decides to participate in the project, does that mean the City will occupy
three floors and the County the remaining three floors.
Deputy County Manager Atkinson explained that the first plan was to construct a three story
building on the Library site to move offices out of the Annex Building because of its deplorable
condition. After further discussion, the Board decided that it would be cheaper to construct a six
story building to house offices in the Annex Building and County Administration Building, which will
free up space in the existing County Administration Building to provide space for Emergency
Operations Center and room for expansion of other County Departments. No decision has been made
by the Board of County Commissioners on whether to build a three or six story building. The
Commissioners decided to defer action on this item until discussion could be held with the City
Council about joint participation.
Deputy County Manager Atkinson also advised that Sheriff Lanier has requested the Board
to allow the Sheriff’s administrative space to remain in the existing Law Enforcement Center (LEC)
instead of moving these offices to the Blue Clay Road site. This change will make a difference in the
amount of County space available in a new Administration Building.
A lengthy discussion followed on the condition of the existing County Administration Building
located at 320 Chestnut Street. County Manager O’Neal advised that structurally, this building was
sound; however, the building is 52 years old and the following repairs are needed: (a) overhauling
the heating and air system; (b) installing new elevators; (c) installing new windows; (d) upgrade the
building to comply to ADA standards; and (e) replacement of some exterior portions of the building.
Further discussion was held on the location of sites large enough to accommodate City and
County space needs. It was concluded that the City and County should consider constructing
separate buildings. Mayor Pro Tem Moore stated that as a County taxpayer, she hoped the County
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JANUARY 22, 2001
would not consider constructing a three story building; however, since there is not a site with a
footprint large enough to construct one large center for City and County offices, she would suggest
thinking in terms of a governmental complex constructed in a quad which would provide a campus
setting of buildings within walking distance from each other.
Mayor Jones asked County Manager O’Neal what was a workable solution that would be in
the best interest of the people.
County Manager O’Neal spoke on the numerous times that City and County staff have tried
to work on joint projects and stated the quad arrangement suggested by Mayor Pro-Tem Moore
would be ideal because all City and County services would be in a three block area.
Commissioner Boseman expressed concern for the lack of joint efforts accomplished by the
City and County, and asked if any serious consideration had been given to merging some
departments.
Mayor Pro-Tem Moore advised that it has been determined that sufficient space is not
available in the downtown area to construct a City/County Complex. The fact that the County is
going to construct a new building has nothing to do with merging departments. She stated that she
was confident the City and County would merge departments in the future.
Commissioner Caster stated if a site can not be found large enough to accommodate a
City/County Complex, the campus setting should be considered. However, due to time constraints,
the County should move forward with its plan to construct a three story or six story building.
Councilmember Padgett noted that it appears a six story building is needed by the County
and additional space is needed by the City. If the City and County remain aware of what departments
are in each building, offices can be rearranged as departments change in the future. This process
should be kept open, and both the City and County Staff should pursue joint efforts. She also
requested the Board of County Commissioners to construct a six story building instead of a three
story building.
Motion:
Mayor Pro-Tem Moore made a motion for the County to move forward with constructing
an Administration Building on the Library site and to support a campus setting of City/County
buildings in the future so that ultimately City/County offices can be combined at a later date. The
motion was seconded by Councilmember Conlon.
Councilmember Rivenbark spoke on both the City and County using buildings that have been
in place for a number of years and stated that he did not know whether a campus type atmosphere
could be established. He expressed disappointment for not being able to share office space.
Commissioner Pritchett suggested that consideration should be given to constructing a mirror
image of the six story building being built by the County on the Library site with an overhead
crosswalk to join the buildings. This would create a complex atmosphere in both directions and
provide convenience to the public when visiting offices.
Mayor Jones responded that this idea could be considered.
After further discussion, Mayor Jones requested the motion to include a statement that if any
additional space should become available in the County’s new six story building or the existing
County Administration Building, the City and County should stay in close negotiations with each
other on the possibility of joint shared space.
Mayor Pro-Tem Moore and Councilmember Conlon agreed with incorporating this clause into
motion carried by a 5 to 1 vote. Councilmember Rivenbark voted in
the motion. The
opposition.
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JANUARY 22, 2001
CONSIDERATION OF CITY PARTICIPATION IN THE PARKING DECK BEING
CONSTRUCTED BY THE COUNTY
Mayor Jones advised that the Special Use Permit granted by the City requires the County to
construct a parking deck; therefore, the only way for the City to participate is by adding additional
levels.
Chairman Davis stated as a point of clarification, the parking deck was not a condition of the
Special Use Permit, but 300 parking spaces were required within 650 feet of the Judicial Building
expansion.
Councilmember Padgett asked if the new deck would consist of 620 parking spaces.
Deputy County Manager Atkinson explained that the parking deck will provide 620 spaces
to accommodate the judicial expansion, Library employees and patrons, employees of the Clerk of
Courts office, employees of the Register of Deeds office, and employees in the new administration
building. The parking deck can be filled with displaced county and state employees. Currently, the
County has a short-term lease with the Azalea Inn to rent parking for library patrons and other county
employees during the construction process. Once the parking deck is completed, the parking spaces
for jurors will be moved from the City’s parking deck on Third Street to the new deck. This move
will provide additional spaces for the City. A few weeks ago, a parking consultant management firm
contacted the County about scheduling parking so additional spaces on the new parking deck will be
available on weekends and nights.
Councilmember Rivenbark asked if County employees pay for parking.
County Manager O’Neal responded that County employees receive free parking and stated
that New Hanover County pays the City approximately $80,000 to $90,000 per year for juror parking
spaces.
Mayor Jones stated that the City was not asking the County to solve its parking problems and
advised that the City was currently involved with three different projects to meet parking needs.
Commissioner Caster asked if the City would like to participate in constructing the new
parking deck on the Library site.
Councilmember Rivenbark asked how the City could participate in the project if all six levels
are needed by the County. He asked if nine levels could be constructed.
Discussion followed on the height regulations and the cost of adding additional floors to the
parking deck. County Manager O’Neal stated that he would be glad to check with Sharpe
Architecture PA and report back on the projected cost; however, both Boards may want to consider
the aesthetics of the site if additional levels are added to the deck.
City Manager Gornto spoke on the City already having parking available adjacent to the
County’s new parking deck and stated when spaces become available after the jurors are moved, this
will provide additional parking spaces in this section of town. She advised that parking should be
available in various downtown areas instead of one concentrated area to better accommodate the
needs of the City.
Councilmember Rivenbark asked if any State employees pay for parking.
Deputy County Manager Atkinson responded that State employees and employees in the
Clerk of Court office will pay for parking on the new deck. If a parking consultant is hired, it is
hoped that some revenue can be generated from the parking deck through charging on weekends and
after work hours.
Councilmember Conlon recommended that it be the consensus of Council to encourage the
County to proceed with constructing the parking deck proposed for the Third and Grace Streets site.
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JANUARY 22, 2001
If the City sees an opportunity to participate in this project, it will do so. He also requested the
County to provide additional parking spaces on the new parking deck after hours and over weekends
at a charge if the opportunity becomes available.
ADDITIONAL ITEMS
Discussion of Convention Center
Mayor Jones spoke on the need to have regional support for the Convention Center as well
as support from the City and County. He encouraged the County to work with Mr. Vinton Fountain
in carrying out this effort.
Amendment to City Council Motion on Local Government Structure Study
Mayor Pro-Tem Moore suggested adding a time limit of 30 days to the City’s motion
regarding the recommendation for a group to conduct the local government structure study.
Members of the City Council agreed.
Discussion of Merging Departments
Mayor Jones requested both boards to identify departments that can be merged and suggested
beginning with combining water and sewer services since approximately $100 million will be spent
on upgrading facilities. He stated that the time has come to stop talking and direct the City Manager
and County Manager to bring back a workable plan for merging the City and County water and sewer
departments.
Chairman Davis agreed with Mayor Jones and stated if an agreement could be reached on
combining water and sewer services, this would be the first step toward overall consolidation.
Commissioner Boseman agreed with moving forward as quickly as possible to combine water
and sewer services. She made a plea for citizens living in Kings Grant and urged the City to assist
the County with providing water and sewer to this area as soon as possible.
Mayor Jones urged the Council to instruct the City Manager and the Board of County
Commissioners to instruct the County Manager to prepare a workable plan to merge water and sewer
services.
Councilmember Rivenbark advised that an interlocal agreement had been presented to the
County numerous times. This type of an agreement has been tried throughout the State and it has
proven to be successful. The City has the infrastructure and the expertise to provide water and sewer
services to the citizens. The major problem experienced in the past is who will control the system.
The primary focus should be on the delivery of water and sewer to the citizens at the most
economical cost. This should be the driving factor, not who will control the combined system.
Mayor Jones reminded both boards that what happened in the past should not influence how
the two boards want to pursue combining these services. The main issue is to request the City
Manager and County Manager to come back with a workable solution. It does not matter what the
department will be called, but it is important for the two departments to work together and provide
a quality service.
Commissioner Caster noted that Councilmember Rivenbark was correct and stated that
governance was the stumbling block. No one has ever questioned the expertise of the City, but
twelve elected officials will have to resolve the governance issue.
Councilmember Rivenbark stated that many issues will have to be addressed to avoid a City
resident subsidizing a resident in the unincorporated county.
Mayor Pro-Tem Moore advised that the City is an expert in the water business and the
members of both boards will have to be broad minded enough to want a water and sewer authority,
independent of a political body to be in charge of a combined water and sewer system.
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City Manager Gornto advised that the first step in moving forward with a merged utility is to
perform a financial analysis. If both boards agree that it makes sense financially to combine water and
sewer services, a review of how the utility will be governed can be determined at that time.
Commissioner Boseman requested a time frame for receiving the financial figures.
County Manager O’Neal advised that City Manager Gornto and he could get the numbers
together within a month.
ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Jones expressed appreciation to the Board of County Commissioners for discussing
these issues and adjourned the meeting at 3:20 P.M.
Chairman Davis called for a motion to adjourn.
Motion:
Commissioner Caster MOVED, SECONDED by Vice-Chairman Greer, to adjourn. Upon
vote, the MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Chairman Davis adjourned the meeting at 3:20 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Lucie F. Harrell
Clerk to the Board