2022-02-24 Special Meeting
NEW HANOVER COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS BOOK 35
SPECIAL MEETING, FEBRUARY 24, 2022 PAGE 344
ASSEMBLY
The New Hanover County Board of Commissioners met for a Joint Special Meeting with the Wilmington City
Council on Thursday, February 24, 2022, at 9:08 a.m. at the Wilmington Convention Center, 10 Convention Center
Dr., Wilmington, North Carolina.
Members present: Chair Julia Olson-Boseman; Vice-Chair Deb Hays; Commissioner Jonathan Barfield, Jr.;
Commissioner Bill Rivenbark; and Commissioner Rob Zapple.
Staff present: County Manager Chris Coudriet; County Attorney Wanda Copley; and Clerk to the Board
Kymberleigh G. Crowell.
City of Wilmington Council present: Mayor Bill Saffo; Mayor Pro-Tem Margaret Haynes; Councilmembers
Neal Anderson; Clifford Barnett, Sr.; Kevin O’Grady; Charlie Rivenbark; and Kevin Spears (remote).
City of Wilmington staff present: City Manager Tony Caudle; City Attorney John Joye; and City Clerk Penny
Spicer-Sidbury.
Chair Olson-Boseman and Mayor Saffo called their respective Boards to order for the Joint Special Meeting
reporting that the purpose of the meeting is to discuss priorities and possible partnerships to include the possibility
of a public transportation, multi-modal quarter-cent sales tax ballot referendum in November 2022, and funding
strategies to address maintaining existing inventory and growing inventory aimed at workforce housing.
DISCUSSION AND DECISION ABOUT FUNDING TO ADDRESS AFFORDABLE HOUSING
Chair Olson-Boseman stated that is clear that affordable housing is a priority for all. Both elected bodies
want families to have a safe, affordable home to lay their heads at night, for children to have the stability that comes
with affordable housing, and for every resident to be able to live in the same county where they work. However, she
does not feel that a county-wide housing bond is the route the County needs to take at this time. She knows that
many other cities in North Carolina have passed housing bonds, but the only county to pass one is Orange County,
and that was for $5 million in 2016. The circumstances for Orange County are different because it receives HOME
funds and had a structure already at work and in place for housing programs in advance of the bond. There is no
community appetite here for higher property taxes to pay for affordable housing, which was clear in the recent
polling and the UNC-Greensboro survey. She believes that are ways the County and City can work together, along
with other private entities that have expressed interest in being part of the solution, to help fund needed initiatives
without asking the property owners to shoulder that burden through a tax increase. The County already has been,
and will continue to, focus on affordable and workforce housing. In just the past few years, the County has invested
approximately $35 million in housing with the help of federal and American Rescue Plan (ARP) funds. That includes
providing the infrastructure for the creation of affordable housing, the nonprofit programs funded each year in the
County budget, or the housing programs it has created that have aided residents with rent, gap financing, and
mortgage assistance. The County has also donated 11 properties to Habitat for Humanity for the creation of
affordable homes (including 14 acres of land in Wrightsboro). She knows the City has also committed funding to the
issue and has a successful housing program in place that does a lot of good for city residents. All of that is significant,
but the Board also recognizes that more must be done, and there needs to be a specific strategy to address the
affordable housing issues in this community.
Commissioner Zapple stated that he would like to bring forward during this meeting a community plan that
is supported by a majority of the County Commissioners, County Manager Coudriet and key administrative and
financial staff for the County to pledge existing revenues at a minimum of $3 million a year for the next five years
for a total commitment of $15 million. The funds will be dedicated to programs and initiatives that will address
solutions to affordable housing in the County. The overwhelming need for action on this issue is clear and the County
is ready to step up to supply these dedicated funds on top of its ongoing commitment to a variety of programs,
including $28 million for emergency rental assistance and $3 million for mortgage assistance. The County also has a
clear commitment to hire new personnel for the creation of a new department solely focused on affordable housing
to identify evidence-based programs, provide financial accountability, and report outcomes. The $50 million that
the County is pledging would be increased significantly with a similar commitment from the City and financial
commitments from the private sector. The revenue that the County is pledging is money that is available now to
fund direct action and will be fully available on July 1, 2022 with the adoption of the County budget. The community,
as a whole, cannot continue to kick the can down the road. He then asked County Manager Coudriet to provide more
details about the community plan.
County Manager Coudriet stated it is important to note that from a County staff perspective, it has been
listening to the Board's discussions, having discussions with the Board, with the private sector, and other
philanthropic supporters in the community. He would not suggest that what Senior Long Range Planner Rachel LaCoe
will be presenting is in fact a baked plan. It is in response to the discussions that the Board has had, and staff has
had as well as being informed by the Workforce Housing Advisory Committee and the program that the committee
would recommend if there were $50 million available over the course of time. The $15 million, at a minimum to
achieve $50 million or more, can be leveraged in a more compressed time schedule. He then asked Ms. LaCoe to
outline how $15 million would be spent and what $3 million in action would look like just with County proceeds
which does not include the leverage or other appropriations that are made.
Ms. LaCoe presented the following on the community plan:
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Original Housing Framework:
Workforce Housing Service Program (HSP):
Housing Division staff will advertise a request for proposals (RFP) in Q1 and Q3 to solicit project
applications from qualified entities and organizations to administer and deliver HSP supported
affordable housing projects including Affordable Housing Development Program; Gap Financing
Program; Infrastructure Financing Program; Emergency Repair Program; Owner-Occupied
Rehabilitation Program; Down Payment Assistance Program; Tenant-Based Rental Assistance
Program.
Increase Stock:
Affordable Housing Development: Provide targeted gap financing or infrastructure
investments to directly support the development of affordable units (such as tax credit
projects or permanent supportive housing). This type of fund would be able to support
housing developments for seniors, working families, and disabled persons. It would allow the
county to respond to opportunities initiated by the private sector and would provide a flexible
source to respond to changing market conditions. Estimated $15,000 per unit.
Improve Stock:
NOAH Preservation: This strategy type would assist with the preservation and retention of
Naturally Occurring Affordable Housing (NOAH). Activities include both the acquisition and
rehabilitation of existing units to maintain affordability for those units. Housing units could
then be sold, with deed restrictions in place to ensure owner-occupancy or rented at an
affordable rent under the management of the private partner. The partnership agreement
could be structured as a short-term loan or allow the partner to continue revolving the
proceeds into other projects over the term of the agreement. Revenue from sales could be
used to seed a trust fund to be used for other affordable housing initiatives. Rental proceeds
could also be used as a recurring funding source (with $500 net monthly rents resulting in
$6,000 per unit annually). Estimated $200,000 per unit, including rehabilitation costs.
Improve Stock, Increase Access:
Emergency Repair Program/Owner-Occupied Rehabilitation Program: This program would
assist with minor repairs, such as a new roof, air conditioner repair, paint, or aging in place
modifications. Funds for repairs can also be made available to non-profits providing these
services. Estimated $10,000 per unit for emergency/minor repairs; $50,000 - $100,000 for
major rehabilitation.
Increase Access:
Down Payment Assistance Program: This program funds down payment assistance for first-
time homeowners along with financial and homeownership education for program
participants. This funding could be designed as a grant or 0% interest loan payable upon
transfer of the property. Estimated $25,000 per unit.
Tenant-Based Rental Assistance Program: Rental subsidy to help individual households afford
housing costs such as rent and security deposits. Households with a tenant-based voucher
choose and lease safe, decent, and affordable privately-owned rental housing. The county
currently implements the GAP Rental Assistance Pilot Program targeted for moderate income
households. Estimated $3,600 per unit for workforce housing.
Program Roll-Out:
Commissioner Barfield expressed concerns about the ability to increase housing stock where there is no
stock. In response to questions, Ms. LaCoe stated as part of the process there is the potential for an organization to
acquire properties to supply more housing stock. Under the new rental acquisition preservation build program would
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be where an organization would be acquiring properties. If the organization only wanted to apply for the RFP, that
would be one of the right programs that would be in the process. There being no inventory is why one of the highest
priorities is increasing the stock. With some of the RFPs, the desire may be to focus on that first as far as keeping
prices low and would be the opportunity afforded with the program. There are a lot of models to keep housing
affordable whether it is the land trust maintaining the land, or just keeping deed restrictions to keep it owner
occupied. There is more opportunity than for just being a rental. While the housing market is expensive and not able
to be controlled, opportunities can be provided to try to help bridge the gap. However, it is a lot easier to look at
rentals with some of the long-term housing tax credit projects. Again, staff will be looking through the proposals to
see the best way organizations can offer housing. Also, one of the potentials of a public-private partnership would
be if someone came forward with a mixed use-mixed income development and was able to put together a proposal
that would have this kind of community that they could build. She understands there are a lot of people who have
stated there is no way to build out of this issue, and she thinks that is true, but she also thinks there is a need to look
at how to increase the stock across the board at all price points to ensure that people who could qualify for higher
priced houses have those available so they do not take up the lower price inventory. The programs will not be held
in-house for that type of process and that is why the RFP is being put out to see what the market can provide.
Currently, she does not have an answer on how to increase housing stock.
In response to additional questions, Ms. LaCoe confirmed that there are a host of opportunities such as,
but not limited to, rehab or infill development or renovating a hotel to make one-bedroom apartments affordable
for people. The rental assistance program could provide a subsidy of $300 per month to help offset an $1,800 per
month rental which would be a positive impact and make a difference for people.
Commissioner Zapple thanked Ms. LaCoe for the presentation and stated that he thinks the major and
minor rehab portions of the plan represent the lowest number of new units being brought online and are simply not
available. He has seen less than 100 to 150 units maximum per year. He agrees that the core issue is the creation of
new units, and it is going to boil down to some sort of incentive that will attract the building community, make that
community realize that they can be a major player, and can make money along with it. That will be when there is a
sustainable program. Traction will be gained on the problem once the incentive amount is identified.
Mayor Saffo stated that most know the City has been in the affordable housing business since 2001. To
date, the City has spent $42 million, averaging $2 million a year from the City's taxpayers, to help in affordable
housing, which has translated into about 713 affordable housing units that have been purchased. The City has also
leveraged an additional $9 million for several other programs, including rental assistance. He thinks the City has
spent about $3.4 million in rental assistance, which translates into about 538 affordable rental units. The City is
leveraging the tax dollars. He hopes the private sector will step up to help. Under the City’s new land development
code, an additional 57 units have been added since October 2021 due to giving bonuses for people that are bringing
affordable housing units online. The City is at an additional $2 million and he thinks from the private sector that Cape
Fear Collective is at $10.2 million, in addition to other organizations that are within the community. He hopes other
organizations would be approached to discuss the possibility of matching and putting additional money forward
because between the City and County it is $5 million a year in affordable housing units. Additionally, one of the
things that has not been clear to him is that there are substantial amounts of property in the County’s
unincorporated areas. There is some concept that the local governments are going to go out there, buy the property,
and then develop it into a subdivision like a developer would do. That is not in the City and County’s forte, but what
can be done is to leverage the money and insist on affordable units being included. For example, if a developer wants
to come forward to build a subdivision and wants to incorporate 20% or 30% of affordable units in the subdivision,
the City and County by pooling funds can incentivize by taking part in utilities, which helps reduce the cost of the lot
which is where the dramatic increase in cost is coming from housing, in addition to inflation. He thinks inflation will
be adjusted as the Federal Reserve starts adjusting its rates this year. However, the cost of that lot continues to
increase each year because of the limited availability. With being the second smallest county in the state, there is
only so much land and the landowners will decide, or dictate in many cases, whether they want affordable units
included as part of the developments. He does see a large contingent of tax credit developers coming into the area
because they have heard this discussion and how important this issue is to both elected bodies. He expressed
appreciation for the County’s effort as it helps both entities use the funds and thinks things are starting to move in
the right direction.
In response to questions, County Manager Coudriet stated that the $15 million the County is pledging is
coming from the existing growth in its revenues on an annual basis. What staff has talked about is where would
those sources be. He thinks staff needs to look at a variety of revenues to give the Board maximum flexibility to carry
out this, plus its other priorities. Some of those revenues include organic growth in the property tax and top line
growth on sales tax. The Board has also given staff the permission to look at interest revenues from the County’s
escrows as well as consideration of principal. He does not know if from a staff perspective, whether staff would
recommend any one source of revenue at this point. Staff does believe that $3 million a year, at a minimum, is
attainable for the next five years. It will come out of the general fund but will come from growth in the County’s
revenue sources and/or interest out of the escrows that came about as part of the sale of New Hanover Regional
Medical Center in the amount of $350 million. Those escrows are going to generate a defined amount of interest on
an annual basis and the Board has been willing to look at using interest from that or tapping into the principle of
either the $300 million portion or the $50 million portion for the right projects.
Chair Olson-Boseman stated that what is being talked about is leveraging the dollars and staff is talking with
the New Hanover Community Endowment (NHCE) about its interest in affordable housing as NHCE has indicated
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that as one of its top priorities. Staff is also speaking with various private builders to try leverage it and make it more.
County Manager Coudriet added for further clarification that with the sale of the hospital the NHCE was created and
controls the $1.25 billion. As part of the transaction, $350 million was also put into two escrows that are owned and
controlled by the County. The County has full discretion with a supermajority of the Board to control how those
county-specific owned revenues are used. The $350 million will generate some amount of interest annually and the
Board is willing to look at some of the principal of that, which is unrelated to the NHCE itself.
In response to questions, County Manager Coudriet stated the Board cannot speak for the NHCE as to why
it is or is not willing to contribute the balance needed to reach $50 million. However, the NHCE has expressed interest
in the topic. County staff has had the discussions but has also met with the private sector about their interest to
know if there is $3 million per year, how do they take that and turn it into added capacity with low-income tax credits
or if they take it $15,000 per unit and how does that drive down overall costs.
Councilmember Rivenbark stated that he understood Commissioner Zapple to say in addition to the $15
million the City would be encouraged to make a life match. If that is the case, then the City residents are paying
twice when considering that a sizable portion of the money is coming out the general fund, which the City residents
also pay into. There are still people in this County that do not fully understand that the City of Wilmington is within
New Hanover County. He thinks it is inordinately unfair. The City is the one that people really look to for affordable
housing because most of the need is within the City limits. While he understands it, the issue is spreading out outside
the corporate limits and into the unincorporated areas. He expects the County to do its fair share and the City will
do its fair share but not a penny more as far as he is concerned.
County Manager Coudriet stated that he understood and did not interpret what Commissioner Zapple
stated as an ask of the City to do more than it is already doing which is $2 million in leveraging its Community
Development Block Grant.
Councilmember Rivenbark further stated that the group is back to square one. He is disappointed that this
seems so complicated and all that seems to have been done is to look at what others are doing. He wants both
groups to set the precedent to lead the way and for everyone look to this community to see what has been done to
address the issue.
Commissioner Zapple stated that he disagreed with Councilmember Rivenbark as the County is stepping up
and committing to $15 million over five years. This is a pledge of revenue as described by County Manager Coudriet
of where it will be coming from and it is not hope, it is real. It is money that is here now and that is a game changer
and puts the County squarely into it. The thought of the City jumping in was merely a statement that was there, and
he thinks it is wonderful that the City is putting in $2 million. The issue is a City and County problem that both will
solve together. In addition to the $15 million, the County is also committing to creating a department focused on
affordable housing. There is no clear solution to this issue. There are multiple ideas and initiatives out there that
over a five-year period with the work of all involved information will be compiled as well as the ability to direct the
funds to where they really need to be and center the efforts around how to create new units.
Councilmember Rivenbark stated that the ad hoc committee appointed by both groups, spent a great deal
of time and effort to return with what he felt was a very comprehensive report. That report will collect dust like all
the other reports have over the years. Commissioner Zapple responded that he thinks the work the ad hoc
committee did was incredibly important that brought together a wealth of information that help educate him and
others. However, there was still no clear solution or path that came out of that committee. There were
recommendations and he thinks that is where the County is moving forward from by making the pledge of revenues.
Mayor Pro-Tem Haynes stated that she is pleased the County is making this commitment. However, over
the last 20 years, the City has invested more than $40 million in affordable housing. She does not think there is a
way to build out of the deficit of affordable housing. Money will be needed for rehabbing some existing places and
communities as well as doing several things other than building new housing. The City committed $5 million to the
Starway project in addition to a variety of things to make the property workable for the developers. She thinks it is
an excellent location on Carolina Beach Road. She also believes the City has set aside another several million out of
the budget to put towards it, in addition to the programs that the County is now going to institute. The City does not
have land so this is going to have to be solved in some major way outside the municipal limits.
Councilmember Spears stated that he agrees with Councilmember Rivenbark’s comments. There is a need
to be more concerned about what can be done. There are no specifics about where the money will come from. It is
known there is a housing issue, and the citizens understand that. He wants to know what both groups are going to
do as there is no way to build out of the issue. There is also no reason to continually meet and have nothing come
about. There needs to be action. The group is not any further today than when the discussions first started. He wants
the groups to be accountable for what is being done in the community and as of now, it does not look like the groups
are being accountable.
Councilmember Waddell commended the County for what he thinks is a successful way forward and a
legitimate plan without raising taxes. The County understands that the City has already made significant investments
to this same end, and that was his understanding of the discussions that have been held thus far. The use of the
term affordable housing is a nebulous term. It really encompasses everything from 80% to 30% average median
income, which is a broad spectrum of vastly different sectors of affordability. He would advocate in the plan that it
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would be prudent to produce some sort of benchmark key performance indicators (KPI) that show clear and direct
goals of where the intended allocations of the concerted efforts of these funds are going to go. Then perhaps
integrating some of the trade associations that have the tools to not only track the progress in the success and tally
those successes but aid in communicating that with the community. He thinks the education part of all of this is
important for the citizens to understand the entirety of affordable housing. He looks forward to working with the
County and appreciates that it is understood the significant investments already made by the City.
Vice-Chair Hays thanked the City for its $40 million commitment over the past 20 years and its continued
commitment of a minimum $2 million a year. The County has also committed $35 million and spent $35 million over
the past 30 months, so the County is in it, and this is the commitment to the community from the County. She further
stated that she would make a motion that the Board of Commissioners directs County staff to develop a framework
that utilizes no less than $15 million over the next five years with revenue that is already coming into the County to
develop programs and initiatives that increase access to affordable housing opportunities and increase and improve
the stock of affordable homes in New Hanover County. As part of her motion, she would ask that an affordable
housing framework be brought before the Board during the budget process over the coming months and that staff
begin building the capacity and positions needed so the County can be ready to start this specific housing support
and funding on July 1, 2022, the start of the County’s fiscal Year.
Chair Olson-Boseman asked if there was a second to the motion. Commissioner Zapple seconded the
motion.
MOTION: Vice-Chair Hays MOVED, SECONDED by Commissioner Zapple to direct County staff to develop a
framework that utilizes no less than $15 million over the next five years with revenue that is already coming into the
County to develop programs and initiatives that increase access to affordable housing opportunities and increase
and improve the stock of affordable homes in New Hanover County. County staff is also to bring before the Board
an affordable housing framework during the budget process over the coming months and begin building the capacity
and positions needed so the County can be ready to start this specific housing support and funding on July 1, 2022,
the start of the County’s fiscal Year. Upon vote, the MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Chair Olson-Boseman asked that County Manager Coudriet explain the difference between the $50 million
bond, what the County is doing, and why this will potentially be more money put into affordable housing. County
Manager Coudriet stated that $50 million has been framed as the amount of money needed to start solving the
problem. However, there is the idea that if the bond passed, or that if the County said to spend/raise $50 million
that that would happen in one step. What would occur is that the County’s chief financial officer (CFO) would sell
that debt over the course of five to seven years. As such, it is not $50 million that would come to the County to be
disbursed on a monthly or annual basis. The $50 million would be sold over time because the CFO must sell it when
there are identified projects to spend it on, and it has to cash flow and accomplish things in near term. The money
cannot be sat on to enjoy the interest and enrich the taxpayers. A $50 million commitment by the County is not $50
million available on July 1 of this year, January 1, 2023, or July 1, 2023. Those dollars would come over time and so
the proposal is to put in, as the Board has suggested, not less than $3 million which will be $15 million over five
years, and leverage that in year one, year two, year three, year four, and year five to take $15 million and turn it into
$50 million or $65 million. County staff knows that is attainable based on the conversations with the private sector,
the building community, and other philanthropic organizations. There is interest in using some public money to solve
the problem, but not to use public money exclusively. He thinks, and unfortunately and it is staff’s fault, that the
County has not educated that the $50 million would not be available on day one, or even one year after the passing
of a bond, if in fact, it passed. Either way there is going to need to be cash flow. The scale of the program that Ms.
LaCoe outlined is in keeping with the work of the Workforce Housing Advisory Committee. While not exactly what
was identified, it is in the lanes where they identified the expenditures would need to go so it is not hypothetical. It
is a plan that can be refined and seeded annually with not less than $3 million.
Councilmember Anderson commended the County for what it has developed. He never thought either
group was going to go into the housing business but instead use incentives, down payments, and bridging money. It
was also going to be a way to work with the private sector to make it happen. It is exciting to him for the County and
City to be working together on this issue. He noted the projects the City has started this year and acknowledged the
stock being built is not keeping up. He is not sure the local governments will be able to catch up as an overwhelming
number of units are needed.
Councilmember Barnett commended the County for putting funds towards affordable housing. He hears
what everyone is saying, and it concerns him that there is no available housing stock. It is going to be a challenge.
He is ready to get to work on the matter.
Commissioner Rivenbark stated that the County spent $1.89 million on the Starway project as well. As to
the bond, a survey of approximately 1,500 people was positive for it while the Wilmington Chamber conducted two
surveys of 250 to 300 people each and tried to convince all that there was no way a bond would pass. The County
understands how the City feels and is in it with the City.
Commissioner Barfield stated that he is optimistic that the two groups will get to where they need to be on
this issue. He provided an overview of what he learned on a Wilmington Chamber trip to Charleston, SC where
companies were coming in and providing jobs, but the cost of housing was so high the employees had to live up to
45 minutes outside of the city. This is not a new topic. This community is there now, and he keeps seeing a lack of
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housing. Private landowners are looking out for what is in their best interest and their pocketbook. Developers are
now taking bids on homes in the community, which never happened before. He hopes a way can be found to provide
the right rentals. He feels homeownership is the way to go because it increases opportunity for generational wealth.
In most cases, it is what happens within the African American communities. He is cautiously optimistic and hopes
that the Board will allocate the right resources to tackle the issue.
Commissioner Zapple stated that as to the new County department there will be a minimum of three if not
four employees, which is beyond the $15 million pledged over five years. It is correct that the amount is a minimum
of $3 million per year and will not go below that amount. If there continues to be a strong sales tax, the number will
be higher. The Starway project is a wonderful example of the County and City working together. He looks forward
to replicating that joint effort in other projects as that is where the creation of new housing units can come from.
Mayor Pro-Tem Haynes stated she has seen a lot of progress during the meeting, and it is based on the
information received from the ad hoc committee as well as feedback from the community. It is certainly not a
panacea to the problem. There is forward movement, and nothing happens overnight. She is also happy to see both
groups come together to work to address and possibly solve the issue.
Councilmember Rivenbark hopes that future County Commissioners have the same zeal as the current
Board. There must be some political will of the Board to look past the people who state that they do not want these
projects in or near their neighborhoods. It will happen to the City as well. It recently occurred in the next county
over where a project was defeated when someone wanted to build single family houses in a sea of mobile homes all
because the residents did not want it in their backyards.
Chair Olson-Boseman stated she agrees with Councilmember Anderson about the need to find something
to do about the downtown properties and how to keep people in them. She does not know how the County helps
the City do that as it is such a big issue, but she does agree with him.
Mayor Saffo stated that while there is commitment by the City and County, he wondered if another $25
million could be found from within the community. He does not want the discussion to stop and understands the
County does not want to raise taxes. He knows there are people from the community in attendance that could
provide the other $25 million. There has already been a private sector business that has spent approximately $10
million dollars to purchase properties within the incorporated city limits for affordable housing, which is why he
thinks it is doable. He further expressed appreciation for the partnership between the City and County on the
Starway project. Affordable housing is already going into Brunswick and Pender counties and some of the people
who live in those homes work over here for the City and County, which is why the issue must be spoken about in a
regional sense. Transportation is also going to be a big part of access in the form of access to public transportation.
While there are a lot of people from all over the country moving here and buying high end homes, there is a lot of
affordability in the other counties due to the greater availability of land and it is cheaper the further out a person
goes from here. There is more work to do, but what has been discussed today is a good start.
Councilmember Spears stated that he wants to hear input from the community people in the room. Chair
Olson-Boseman and Mayor Saffo stated that there was no time allotted for public comment on the agenda.
Commissioner Zapple stated that the $50 million is not the final goal, just the minimum goal. His hope is to
see $60 million or more as he thinks that is achievable with participation and input of the private sector and
philanthropic organizations. He expressed appreciation for the City’s support.
Vice-Chair Hays expressed appreciation for City’s support and for everyone working together for the
betterment of the citizens. While she cannot speak for her fellow Commissioners, she thinks they have made a bold
statement today and she is personally committed to making sure the team does the work to reach the additional
$25 million or more. Conversations have already started with the community partners to make sure the best plan
possible is put forth and she likes the current plan because it is doable right now and can be adapted when the
market changes.
Chair Olson-Boseman expressed appreciation to everyone for their work and stated that she believes this
is a measured approach, it starts by funding specific strategies almost immediately after a plan is in place, and it
shows that the discussion is not just about affordable housing, everyone is committed to doing something about it.
Her hope is for everyone to do this together, as a County, City, and community.
DISCUSSION AND DECISION ON A SALES TAX FOR PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION REFERENDUM IN NOVEMBER 2022
County Manager Coudriet stated that staff, from its perspective, does not have a readymade presentation
on the sales tax for a public transportation referendum in November 2022, but can answer questions or put one on
if that is the will of the elected officials. Staff was present to simply staff the subcommittee discussion. There were
five elected officials on the subcommittee and there may be a report out from them, but he cannot speak to it.
Mayor Saffo stated that he understands there has been some discussion about putting the matter before
the citizens.
Chair Olson-Boseman stated that she knows it has been discussed but feels that the events of yesterday
have changed everything.
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Mayor Pro-Tem Haynes stated the subcommittee made up of the five elected officials, two from the County
and three from the City, did discuss this matter as well as the housing issue. She along with Commissioners Barfield
and Zapple and City Councilmembers Barnett and Spears served on the subcommittee. The subcommittee’s
consensus was to move forward with trying to place the referendum on the ballot in November.
Commissioner Zapple concurred with Mayor Pro-Tem Haynes that the subcommittee’s recommendation
was to move forward with the referendum. However, there is more internal debate that is happening with the
County Commissioners on this issue, and he does not know that the Board is ready to proceed at this time.
In response to questions, County Manager Coudriet confirmed that the decision to put the question on the
ballot is a county decision. The legislature only gives the authority to a county to run the countywide consideration
and there would be associated times so that it could be on the ballot this November. His understanding in listening
to the Board today is the desire to continue the conversation and at some point, decide about whether to calendar
in November 2022 or not. From a staff perspective, they will take direction from the Board, but it is a county only
consideration.
Chair Olson-Boseman stated that Commissioner Zapple has indicated he desires more information and
further discussion with staff before the Board proceeds on any type of sales tax referendum. She thinks all are very
conscious of what is going on now with the war and for now, the Board is taking a step back on the matter.
Discussion was held about the matter not being discussed during the meeting. Commissioner Barfield stated
that he served for 11 years on the Cape Fear Public Transportation Authority (WAVE) board and currently serves on
the National Association of Counties (NACo) Transportation Steering Committee. During the NACo Transportation
Steering Committee meeting last week about transportation bonds around the country, it was indicated that roughly
80% of the questions put on a ballot passed, which means citizens recognize the need for affordable options for
public transportation. He does not know why there would not be a conversation about continuing with a quarter
cent sales tax. It is good for citizens to decide whether they want it or not just like they did for the approved quarter
cent sales tax for the parks and recreation bond. He does not understand the hesitation in deciding about placing
the question on the ballot.
Councilmember Anderson stated that his understanding was the hospital project was voted down the first
time it was on the ballot in 1960 and had to go back through a referendum a second time. He would say for the
Board to not be afraid to put the question on the ballot because if it fails the first time it does not mean it will not
pass at some point. Failing is not the end all be all in his opinion and it would be good to get a pulse check from the
citizens about it.
Councilmember Waddell stated that it is not the correct time to consider how to increase taxes on citizens.
A quarter cent sales tax on top of the ad valorem sales tax increase last year has not helped with affordability.
Additionally, the 7.5% inflation this last year has seriously impeded citizens’ purchasing power. It is not fair nor is it
right and the discussion is about people who are struggling to afford housing, and then the increasing costs of
everything across the board. He knows is it is not his decision on whether to put the question on the ballot, but this
group knows how he would vote if it were on the ballot.
Mayor Pro-Tem Haynes stated that as she commented in the subcommittee meetings, she does think the
realization is that this is the main way to raise resources to address the transportation challenges and raise that
money from everyone that comes and goes from this community rather than just the property owners. No tax is
great, but it would raise some money from tourists and people in surrounding counties. She thinks Mayor Saffo
speaks often about the 60,000 vehicles coming through the city every day and she feels that is a traffic issue. If those
people are coming to shop, she thinks they should help offset some of the expense in providing a better
transportation system. As to WAVE, she knows over the years both elected bodies have had difficult meetings about
trying to figure out how to find a funding source for the public bus system. When discussing affordable housing, the
bus system is something that is going to be vital to make public housing effective in being able to get people to work,
shopping areas, and the grocery store. She feels they go hand in hand, and it seems like the County has a plan for
housing. She would like to see the question move forward. Although she does not want to pay any more tax than
anybody else, the sales tax here compared to other areas is low. She hopes the Board will give more consideration
to trying to raise some funds from people other than the property owners.
Vice-Chair Hays stated that as the only elected official that currently sits on the WAVE board, she
understands exactly where they are financially. Further, she thinks Executive Director Marie Parker is absolutely the
right person in place to transform WAVE. She believes in Ms. Parker, her vision and ideas, and the team she is
building. What Ms. Parker has already done and brought to the table is truly transformational. She is not sure enough
is being done to show what Ms. Parker has and will do and a better job needs to be done on that front. She agrees
with Mayor Pro-Tem Haynes that these matters go hand in hand. However, her concern is the current inflation rate
and now the war in Europe. While she realizes this is Wilmington, North Carolina, there are concerns about how and
what kind of effect it will have here locally, and the question becomes whether taxes should be raised during that
time. She does understand it could be included on the ballot and pass, but she has some reservations about it. It
might be that Ms. Parker needs to be given more time to be more obvious in the transformation of WAVE or just
develop a plan and put it out there.
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As to if WAVE right now is financially sustainable enough without coming back to the City and County for
additional funds for the next two to three years, County Manager Coudriet stated that would be correct in his opinion
but would need to defer to Ms. Parker on that. While he knows the conversation is about WAVE, the package on the
quarter cent sales tax was inclusive of more than support for WAVE. WAVE was about 50% of the estimated $145
million over 10 years. Vice-Chair Hays stated that she does like the fact of it not being on the property owners or
one segment of the local citizens but a blanket that is covering everyone that comes into the City, County, or beach
towns. It is much more of a pervasive opportunity.
Councilmember Barnett stated he supports the sales tax question being on the ballot and wants to make
sure that there is not a lot of backpedaling on it. In two or three years from now this situation is going to bite even
harder than it is now.
In response to questions, County Manager Coudriet stated that the use of the funds received from the
quarter cent sales tax, if passed by referendum, is in the context of the legislation not limited to the public
transportation authorities. He thinks in the original proposals the outline collectively, with the City and County,
included 50% to WAVE, a part to rail realignment, a part to the multimodal bike trail, and embedded within WAVE
but a bit separate was bus rapid transit. The authorization in the statute allows funding in that course of things and
what was presented by staff last summer was comprehensive on that front. Also, those are the same things that the
subcommittee discussed with staff input.
Mayor Saffo stated that the rail realignment project is important, and the port is talking about deepening
the channel here to 47 feet like Savannah, GA. The deepening of the channel brings in more containers and bigger
ships and with the port only sitting on about 107+ acres, one aspect of transportation is the logistics on how to get
the containers out of the city. This port does not have the luxury of stacking like Savannah or other ports where they
have large tracts of land. Moving all the traffic out by truck can create a tremendous amount of havoc for the
community. He hopes the Board will seriously consider all of this in making its decision about the putting the
question on the ballot. He thinks the citizens in this community feel that public transportation and other initiatives
are important to them. In 2014 when City’s the $55 million transportation bond was on the ballot it got more votes
than the school bond question. Of that $55 million, $20 million went to bike-ped. He thinks there is some support
for it. He thought there would be some sort of answer today, but he understands if the Board needs to have further
discussion. Again, he hopes the Board would support moving forward with it because it is the citizens’ decision, and
they will either vote for it or against it. If it fails, then everyone must come back to the table to figure out a game
plan to try to help these people. He does think public transportation moving forward is going to be important to
move people around in a very congested and very heavily populated city and urban county that also has a growing
university. There is a need for a good public transportation system.
Councilmember Anderson stated that he is glad County Manager Coudriet brought up how the funds would
be used. He sits on the Wilmington Metropolitan Planning Organization (WMPO) with Councilmember Rivenbark,
Vice-Chair Hays, and Commissioner Barfield and there have been many discussions and presentations about a litany
of federal and state projects and how they are not going to get funded. This referendum is a tool in the County’s
toolbox, and he thinks if it was marketed properly and explained well to citizens it may pass. He thinks it does have
a chance of passing. While he does not want to have do the job the state has been doing forever and should do, he
wants to live in a community where those amenities are available, whether it is by public transportation, bike, or on
foot. He will be glad to be one of the cheerleaders for it.
Commissioner Barfield stated that he is glad the conversation has expanded to other topics. He lives a
quarter to half mile from James E. L. Wade Park and uses the Gary Shell Cross-City Trail to bike from his home to
other parts of town. By being able to utilize the trail, he has gotten to see pretty areas of this community that
otherwise he would not normally see from a vehicle. Other counties and municipalities in the state such as High
Point, Guildford County, and Raleigh have greenway systems where people can bike, walk, and ride. He thinks those
things are fundamental to a city and county where people are getting out a bit more and exposing themselves to
cycling, roller skating, and other activities. He thinks it is also important to look at other ways to provide connectivity.
Councilmember Spears stated that he wants both groups to be cognitive about defining taxes and does not
want to see them misrepresented. It needs to be clear to all citizens about how taxes are used and help them
understand that taxes are a huge part of how local governments handle business. Everybody in the community pays
taxes in some shape, form, or fashion. Everybody should have a say in whether to pass this referendum. Not
everyone will ride a bus but may ride their bike or walk to work or to wherever and they are trying to figure out how
to safely do it. If the idea is to compete with other cities, then there is a need to offer some of the same things that
are being offered in those communities.
Commissioner Zapple stated that the subcommittee heard a lot of testimony on this front and there was a
unanimous recommendation for the referendum. When he refers to there being internal debate, there is also
education happening, some of which just happened now about the importance of it. He respects the fact that this
will be a county decision and he would like to see a full consensus on it. He recognizes the need to move forward
and understands the quarter cent sales tax will be across the entire community including the tourism industry and
visitors from the neighboring counties. This is a way to equitably spread a little bit of pain throughout and have a
significant impact not only with WAVE, but rail realignment and all the other projects being discussed today.
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SPECIAL MEETING, FEBRUARY 24, 2022 PAGE 352
Mayor Pro-Tem Haynes stated that if people are looking for something that will affect everyone, and she
agrees that WAVE is just a part of it and needs a long-term sustainable funding mechanism, rail realignment will
affect everyone. People need to understand that the length of the trains is going to double so if a person is sitting at
a railroad crossing and currently waiting 10 minutes, it is going to increase to 20 or 25 minutes. Additionally, the rail
cars will be allowed to double stack. What is being discussed is a tremendous amount of freight coming through the
City. She believes the rail line crosses 28 intersections within the City and if that can be eliminated, that will go a
long way towards improving the flow of traffic within the City.
Mayor Saffo stated the Board has heard where the City Council stands on this matter. While it is understood
it is the Board’s decision, he hopes the Board will support it.
ADJOURNMENT
Hearing no further discussion, Chair Olson-Boseman and Mayor Saffo adjourned the meeting at 10:42 a.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Kymberleigh G. Crowell
Clerk to the Board
Please note that the above minutes are not a verbatim record of the Special Meeting of the New Hanover County
Board of Commissioners. The entire proceedings are available online at www.nhcgov.com.